EP5: Stop Fixing, Start Building: The CX Philosophy Shift

00:00:11: Hi everybody and welcome back to the next episode on Zooming On CX Podcasts that myself, Ben Nio head of CX here at Zoom.

00:00:20: And I am delighted to be joined by the wonderful Katie Stabler founder of Cultivate and author of The Bestselling Book, CXism!

00:00:29: Katie what have you been upto?

00:00:31: Oh hi Ben thanks for having me pleasureed.

00:00:35: What have I been up to?

00:00:36: A lot of paddle, enjoying the recent bank holiday and being busy up-and down to London.

00:00:44: a lot actually.

00:00:45: So i'm based in Manchester but a lot has opened out into London recently which is

00:00:49: nice Excellent!

00:00:50: Oh well there's you know obviously do a lot cool stuff around it.

00:00:53: But today Katie we're going be talking about culture And the philosophies around there and some of the strategies that you're seeing and hearing about within the marketplace.

00:01:03: So if I sort of frame it a little bit, You use the word philosophy in your conversation rather than strategy or framework when you talk about CXism?

00:01:15: Why does that word choice matter so much to you?

00:01:19: I think because i've worked In The World Of Customer Experience for about fifteen years now dedicatedly.

00:01:27: I see the same thing happening still you know, fifteen years down the line.

00:01:33: We constantly in this profession have this battle around demonstrating return on investment.

00:01:41: and ultimately i think the reason so many CX leaders struggle with that is because we still look at customer experience as an initiative, has a project ,as a tactic.

00:01:54: As a framework if were lucky .As strategy.

00:01:58: and what this means is that you know budget cycles come to an end.

00:02:03: um the strategy gets revamped and refreshed when new people come into the business.

00:02:08: And ultimately what I'm trying to say Is We treat customer experience like This ad hoc thing rather than this holistic culture, which is in an organization or it should be.

00:02:19: So the reason I think philosophy so important is when i'm working with any industry really because I work industry agnostically It's about changing The view of customer experience to stop it being so ad hoc To stop it been so project-led and to stop ultimately this struggle around return on investment.

00:02:37: Because if you treat at talk Of course You're never going see that return on investments.

00:02:41: But as a philosophy If you adapt into whole company and culture, then it never ends.

00:02:48: And you shouldn't have this kind of battle that we do

00:02:50: today.".

00:02:58: Everyone is into CX, right?

00:02:59: They all know the importance of it.

00:03:00: It might mean more spend.

00:03:02: It may mean more retention of customers or better saving time for customers as well and there's lots of these KPIs so its very easy to get drawn in now around it.

00:03:15: whereas what you're talking about Katie is that your are talking genuinely being customer centric from the outset.

00:03:22: but if people look at things like MPS scores you know, feedback loops and all that kind of stuff like what are they actually getting wrong then?

00:03:31: Well,

00:03:31: I mean you just said it really you perfectly explained it were very reactive.

00:03:36: we react in customer experience.

00:03:39: And look there's nothing wrong with that.

00:03:40: and yeah i think historically speaking when u look at the world of cx?

00:03:45: We are reactive.

00:03:46: so we looked a custom journey map.

00:03:48: should we find problems we find friction we fix its.

00:03:51: Will look at these metrics measures and we try to change them influence them.

00:03:57: but that reactive way your always just fixing a problem.

00:04:01: You're never actually building on customer experience, which means you are not evolving or innovating and changing it for the better but just fixing constantly.

00:04:10: if doing that remains static and organisations will be moving ahead of you so remaining static is falling behind.

00:04:20: I don't think.

00:04:21: looking at NPS scores look in feedback loops That's not getting it wrong.

00:04:27: It is just not doing enough, again its too tactical and project led.

00:04:36: Its not going to drive the needle if you are constantly reacting what your seeing.

00:04:48: Have got any good examples of people that have kind found themselves in a situation, adopted this kind of like more strategic view unpacking it and whether to be brave.

00:04:56: And you know address the pressure I guess sort.

00:05:00: but if he got any good examples of customers have to name them by the way.

00:05:03: so don't feel we have to expose anybody.

00:05:05: But once which should make his full choice and have seen the results of that, anything you can share.

00:05:12: Yeah so actually it was one of the winners And they were one of the gold winners, so it took home The Big One and I think It could have been around customer centricity.

00:05:29: But They impressed me on So many levels!

00:05:31: First Of all...they pulled away from NPS.

00:05:34: Now its fine if nps works for you and adds value does what You need to cool.

00:05:38: i'm not going down the road telling you To get rid of NPS.

00:05:41: But they decided that it wasn't actually the right metric for their business, so there were B to B. They were measuring NPS on their account team's management of client relationships and actually just... It didn't suit them!

00:05:54: It wasn't measuring the right things or driving the right behaviour.

00:05:58: So step one around.

00:06:00: their culture was made that bold choice to pull away a firmly embedded metric Obviously, very widely used and easily to benchmark across industries.

00:06:11: They decided no get rid of it scrap it.

00:06:13: And they changed It.

00:06:14: and they created their own customer experience scorecard based on Wow customers outcomes.

00:06:19: so I'm seeing more and more companies do this.

00:06:22: by the way You know measuring what matters is a huge topic at the moment.

00:06:26: Yeah.

00:06:27: But the other thing that really impressed me was actually the level of investment they put into Customer Experience.

00:06:33: So they They're a global company and over two years, so you know not a quick win project.

00:06:40: Over two years their CX team travels the globe going into every part of that organization to fundamentally train the teams.

00:06:52: but really it wasn't about training.

00:06:54: It was about culture...it was about ensuring everybody in our organisation had this same message had the respect to be true at the same, so given that same level of value and priority.

00:07:07: And it ensured everybody knew exactly what was going on in respect for their approach customer experience.

00:07:14: Can you imagine?

00:07:15: Two years of time and effort all about travel or investment.

00:07:20: but what this meant is everyone bought in.

00:07:23: Everybody has skin in game every part of conversation And that is the kind of behaviour, but I think really changes away.

00:07:34: an organisation looks at customer experience when it's platformed and truly prioritised.

00:07:40: You do need us a very supportive and visionary leadership as well in order to two years in this market depending on which market you're in or whatever.

00:07:51: That was long time trying get right with there small wings along the way, but they're sort of little.

00:07:57: You can't you know.

00:07:59: where did I see initially?

00:08:01: The first sort of signs that this was working and how do they then build on it?

00:08:05: if i could

00:08:06: ask would you know what honestly i'd be?

00:08:08: i'd Be fibbing If I Could tell you all Of the details.

00:08:11: But What I Do Know Is That The Metrics That They Shared Showed That Their Experience Had Improved.

00:08:16: so the Work That They were Doing Was Driving the Right Behavior Internally And Again, it's that behavior piece.

00:08:25: So its around making sure your employees are empowered and feel comfortable enough to do the right thing for their customers.

00:08:33: And again this was a B-to-B relationship.

00:08:35: so when we're talking about customers you know there is an account management team with people supplying services too but they were able to act and work in a way that was bespoke to their customers, to ensure that there are getting the best possible customer experience.

00:08:52: And it was all down too again.

00:08:54: this organisational consistent approach in This is what we want do for our customers.

00:09:00: you are empowered?

00:09:01: This Is The Message We're Giving You.

00:09:03: go ahead and Do It.

00:09:04: so yeah empowerment super important small story.

00:09:07: I used To Work For Disney the parks and if something happened you like somebody fell over or dropped their ice cream, whatever.

00:09:18: The ability to... You were totally empowered as a... They're called cast members not staff.

00:09:23: As a cast member we are totally empowered To replace that straight away just without having to ask.

00:09:28: Somebody's dropped there ice-cream.

00:09:29: they really unhappy about it.

00:09:30: I mean they've just given one straightaway.

00:09:32: so i think little things Like That Starts to create the foundation of why?

00:09:37: Why do We want to make Things easy for people who want People to trust us?

00:09:41: All that kind of stuff and I think those kinds things, there's little elements suddenly become a habit.

00:09:46: And then forms the fabric at the company... ...and it seems to shine through on various different elements of

00:09:53: service.".

00:09:54: Yeah you've nailed it!

00:09:54: It is trust this thing.

00:09:57: with customer experience people sometimes get lost in these big wow surprise and delight moments which don't get me wrong they're lovely but actually What we need to do is make sure the foundations are there and make sure that at least as a minimum, deliver as expected.

00:10:13: And those trust everything else is brilliant!

00:10:16: Everything on top of it's wonderful but actually most important thing in customer experience... ...is making sure people you serve trust they will do good job.

00:10:26: Yeah I think its super important certainly within this world again.

00:10:28: where were in technology?

00:10:30: all y'know everyone was thinking about you know, AI.

00:10:34: Of course they are.

00:10:35: and the element of ethics in all that... The trust element is it?

00:10:41: You're not being scammed or anything like this but you've mentioned previously in some of your stuff that AI makes CX-ism more urgent, what do you mean by that?

00:10:57: Again, I think it's that the world we are in you know this Ben.

00:11:01: It is dominated by technology and AI The conversation.

00:11:04: You cannot get away from it Which of course to be expected.

00:11:08: if your not on a train or adopting an embracing technology then undoubtedly you're going to be left behind.

00:11:15: But i think crucially at this time the human piece Is more important than ever Rooms all the time where this debate is happening that you know, though The workforce has going to be drastically reduced.

00:11:28: Customer facing touch points are gonna.

00:11:31: Be overtaken by AI agents and I think there's a real realism To this but we've got to understand what does This mean for our customer experience?

00:11:41: And i'm A big advocate For the very simplistic notion That customer experience Is derived from interaction which creates emotion.

00:11:51: Emotion creates memory, memory creates perception, perception creates what we call customer experience.

00:11:56: and if in a world everything is becoming digitized and the human has been taken away?

00:12:04: What's to stop all of these?

00:12:06: future interactions become very vanilla and are feeling very samey-samey-say me where on were going.

00:12:13: have that opportunity.

00:12:15: build our brand relationship with customers.

00:12:19: People debate whether loyalty is a thing anymore, but you know we don't have the opportunity to create that loyalty.

00:12:25: So I think in this time where AI is of course front and focus more than ever... We need remember what customer experience it's creating an emotional connection with your customers.

00:12:37: No, it is.

00:12:39: And

00:12:40: I think technology's there to help that right?

00:12:42: There he's there.

00:12:43: take away some of the tasks but maybe you know sort of detract away from that person who's delivering that service.

00:12:50: It's their to help them.

00:12:52: You know retrieve information suggests all like things thing.

00:12:56: so do.

00:12:56: But at the same time The way in which you bring yourself to work your best self-to-work Is representative not just you but more importantly the brand that you're representing whether an agent that works for the brand or you're an outsourced agent, a worker who works with somebody else which is representing the brand.

00:13:11: Even more important to have all of this around

00:13:14: there.".

00:13:15: Casey, if we were going to leave someone again... Big topic!

00:13:19: Short time?

00:13:20: If it was about leaving people with their final thoughts just on culture and customer centric nature in the philosophy world what would that be?

00:13:31: I think very critically.

00:13:34: ask yourself what does your, and I'm going to say strategy.

00:13:38: What does your customer experience strategy look like in your organization?

00:13:43: That's the first question.

00:13:44: The second is Is it bought into?

00:13:47: And third Question is Does It Connect To Everything Else In The Business?

00:13:52: So Does It connect All Of Your Other Key Strategies?

00:13:56: You can't comfortably and honestly answer those questions with good answers.

00:14:01: I think you need to step back a little bit, thinking about where the business is heading because undoubtedly most of people listening this podcast are adopting technology in some way And if your customer experience approach isn't heavily intertwined into that... ...I would question whether or not they're heading in the right direction.

00:14:20: So it's critical but very important one.

00:14:25: No, I think you're spot on around the connected nature of trying to do something connecting that with other initiatives in a business as well.

00:14:32: As support from leadership and those are getting people to buy-in is what it's about in order to create consistent framework.

00:14:44: It's been very short, I felt.

00:14:46: We're almost... it was a really short period of time but we've touched on quite a number of areas there.

00:14:52: super, super easy.

00:14:53: Katie thank you as always for sharing all that and what i would say is i'm going to do a shameless plug-on your behalf.

00:15:02: There are lots of those in the book isn't?

00:15:04: Do you want me to remind us about how many books were called

00:15:07: CXism, the philosophy of customer experience?

00:15:10: and it's all about transforming your customer experience from a strategy into

00:15:16: movement.

00:15:18: Brilliant!

00:15:18: And you can get that on Amazon and probably other book services are also available too but... You could buy there for sure around here.

00:15:24: Katie thank you so much.

00:15:26: It has been brilliant talking to you.

00:15:27: I hope everybody who is listening have found this super useful as well.

00:15:30: Thanks very much

00:15:31: Thankyou.