EP2: The AI Hype Cycle and Leadership Pressures

00:00:07: Welcome to Zoom in on CX, the podcast that gets you the heart of what's really shaping customer experience across Amir.

00:00:14: In this episode we've got James who heads up our CX Strategy at Zoom Amir and Nerys founder of Injection Consulting.

00:00:22: Nerys advises businesses every single day about how to get CX rights in a world

00:00:26: changing so fast.

00:00:28: The big question they're tackling today is AI in the contact centre but not the hype version.

00:00:34: So, let's hand it over to James and Nerris.

00:00:38: Well I'm absolutely delighted.

00:00:46: Well, straight back at you.

00:00:56: And I think we're going to have a quite interesting fifteen-twenty minutes here.

00:01:00: because uh... We are gonna kind of dig into the AI hype cycle.

00:01:04: You know?

00:01:04: The amount people that i've seen on the train in London Have been seeing them hacking away At their A.I tools and everything.

00:01:10: You wouldn't see that a year ago would ya?

00:01:12: Oh it's crazy isn'it?

00:01:14: It is crazy.

00:01:15: Everybody sort like Yeah learning this new language And chatting with each other Proficiently with it as well.

00:01:23: Crazy

00:01:24: Yeah, the acceleration is incredible.

00:01:27: I think what we could start with which would be really nice to know from your point of view... You've spoken a lot about this AI hype cycle but surely matters are in the contact centre right now?

00:01:39: The living breathing organism that it is.

00:01:42: and What do you see in?

00:01:44: leaders often miss when they think about AI inside a contact center operation?

00:01:51: Yeah, so that's what I guess like you say.

00:01:54: And i see it from different lenses because I'm lucky enough to spend time with lots of different types of contacts into a small medium very large and they're all...I guess the one thing that means that lyric don't believe The Hype resonates quite a bit is Because there IS A RUSH To deploy It!

00:02:15: There Is This Sense That It Is Gonna Be sort of you know north star gold and nugget for automating everything, serving the customer in a really succinct clean way.

00:02:27: The reality is that it's serving a purpose when well thought through delivering very positive impacts.

00:02:38: But I guess the general sense is, you know what we see with hype cycles?

00:02:43: Is people do rush.

00:02:44: People do get it wrong and then they come crashing down into.

00:02:49: You know The drop of disillusionment where they feel frustrated that they spent all of this money And are not securing the gains.

00:02:58: Are you seeing that leaders under pressure to implement This hype?

00:03:03: if you will Oh

00:03:05: yeah definitely Yeah, the FD is definitely out of his box.

00:03:10: He needs... The CFO.

00:03:12: and yeah they are driving this agenda And it really was sort-of had this impact where It's like.

00:03:19: oh we have to be doing it because everybody else Is doing it.

00:03:23: There's truth in that but the way its deployed and the use cases it serves and value Its going bring Are very distinctive To each business right?

00:03:33: So Yeah, definitely lots of pressure.

00:03:37: And I think it's interesting that you're talking about coming from the kind of financial side of the business which is obviously important because businesses run a profit and loss and need to be there to serve a purpose.

00:03:48: but surely if it focuses too much on that lens Gets lost right?

00:03:59: so what would you say to people that are under immense pressure?

00:04:02: To look at the technology but also maintain What do actually stand for as a service is a brand?

00:04:10: Well, I think has where you've got try and really elevate That value because everybody talks about the value of the customer And securing net new versus losing on all those things.

00:04:20: But they sort have become Really common noise people don't dig into, so when you talk to customers about what is your cost-to-serve a lot of them don't actually know because they haven't done the work to determine it.

00:04:35: So I think there's always going to be a financial lens but you also have to say The Cost To Serve and The Cost Of Not Serving And that has to be the cost of not serving by the voice channel or not serving in an elegant effective way with automation tools that don't work like you want them to, because the pressure of national insurance going up is a huge extra burden on businesses.

00:05:08: So I think everybody thinks well... The answer is AI but it just has to be done consideration in place and really well, the customer has to be front-and-center.

00:05:24: What are we doing it for?

00:05:25: The right reasons?

00:05:26: Are We Really Rigorously Testing It To Make Sure That All Types Of Customers That We Are Looking For It To Serve Are Going To Be Served Effectively Using It?

00:05:38: And Do You Think That Contact Center Is Geared Up For That?

00:05:42: Because That's A Very Different Way of Working compared to maybe what people are used too.

00:05:48: We're focusing more on, I would say the agent outcome and customer outcomes... How do you begin that?

00:05:55: So actually looking for right things.

00:05:58: Imagine we've deployed AI or some kind of assistance technology or bots whatever it looks like.

00:06:04: What will your advice be?

00:06:06: It's interesting because they aren't geared up way, in so much as the metrics that they're looking to achieve aren't focused on perhaps always what the IT team are then.

00:06:20: On The Guys On The Tube that are coding... What They Are Looking For It To Achieve.

00:06:25: So you've got this real mismatch at the moment where You've Got The People Suddenly Super Excited And Emboldened Because THEY Have Got The Keys To This New you know, service opera.

00:06:38: And then you've got the operations.

00:06:40: people going hang on a minute.

00:06:42: what about?

00:06:43: What good looks like from a customer experience point of view?

00:06:45: so I think that the challenges that businesses have is You still have to have somebody who owns The Customer and That Is being serviced by humans or bots and the metrics that you measure Still Have To Be those just because the bot has contained.

00:07:06: does it within that interaction for example, is it offering first contact resolution?

00:07:11: So I think oftentimes with AI we just look at sort of the initial measures, and we don't think about the measures that would look at what do on The Voice channel.

00:07:23: And in a contact centre like First Contact Resolution.

00:07:27: so I think there's real needs to sort of bring some harmonisation between those teams at the moment and thats where i'm seeing disjointed journeys were customers are falling through these gaps?

00:07:43: I think it is interesting you're saying this because if your not careful.

00:07:47: AI could actually make that gap wider when in fact, you know it's the business.

00:07:53: The operations that own those metrics and understand That service right?

00:07:58: And I think that's really interesting.

00:08:00: if we can accelerate clearly with what we Can do with AI We want to be accelerating.

00:08:06: the right things are not the wrong thing.

00:08:08: Yeah Exactly!

00:08:10: You've got to accelerate off of a very solid foundation because your only gonna go backwards, if actually you're overlaying it on broken data.

00:08:21: On poor knowledge bases and this is things that we've been talking about for a while now.

00:08:26: but its still true!

00:08:28: We are putting plasters open wounds which aren't going to heal just because your put a plaster over them.

00:08:36: You really have got.

00:08:37: go back into the work

00:08:41: Yeah, which takes time from your core business of serving.

00:08:44: Right?

00:08:44: So this is the thing.

00:08:45: it's a paradigm shift for leaders as well to adopt that and I think this leads us really nice into the next question.

00:08:51: you often talk now about protecting The Human Voice.

00:08:54: what does That look like?

00:08:56: You kind of touched It A little bit around the voice channel.

00:08:59: so i'm an agent i'm a team leader department manager with a lot Of pressure.

00:09:02: um What Does Protecting The human Voice Actually Mean?

00:09:07: I always say like Barbara Streisand says, people who need people are the luckiest people in the world right?

00:09:12: And that is still true and it's true in The Contact Centre.

00:09:16: However much you want to drive automation and drive AI my belief there will be a need for voice because of the people calling and the intents which they're calling within.

00:09:32: Some of that is connection and comfort people want to need.

00:09:40: And you should always be there as a business in the brand, To deliver your customers' needs because it's just the right thing to do!

00:09:52: There will be value somewhere or somehow.

00:09:55: so you've got to try and determine what that value is... ...and then there's that bit around.

00:10:00: clarity Because let us face it AI should be helping you determine where your customer journey pain points are, but the disconnect between what the marketing team do and what ends up in the contact centre there's always gaps.

00:10:14: So if a letter just doesn't make sense... If the bill shocks they still got to ring-up and secure clarity of what the heck is going on.

00:10:24: so confidence and context as well because Those things are always needed.

00:10:31: I just sit in contact centres all the time and listen to interactions, and predominantly that person needs... ...to speak with somebody even if they process doesn't.

00:10:43: do you know what i mean?

00:10:44: That's a really interesting insight because it is about emotional connection or build shock.

00:10:50: so we can have world best processes ever.

00:10:53: But it's still not going to say, I think one thing that kind of learned back in the days is this whole thing around event plus response equals outcome.

00:11:00: You can say what the event is but you can't determine what my response would be about an event which he was saying.

00:11:07: Well exactly where people are emotionally when they receive news over bill or the item hasn't turned up That emotional context isn't always understood at all.

00:11:19: So if something doesn't turn on a time and place that's really important to you.

00:11:26: That human needs speak because they need that comfort, confidence and clarity.

00:11:33: but don't worry we've got it is going.

00:11:36: get there in the time when needed or other way.

00:11:41: then managing complaints serving customers as effectively.

00:11:46: I just don't think you're ever going to get away from that, but what of course it does mean for the team leaders and advisors in the contact centre is they are consistently having to manage highly emotional interactions.

00:12:03: It's a hard job in the contact center.

00:12:05: And isn't it?

00:12:05: I guess like a badge of honor being on the phones and love that, you know, maybe they should be rather than kind of LinkedIn open to work thing.

00:12:12: we should have been on the phone.

00:12:13: You don't want me put into our idea when this podcast but with these are being on their phones is a hard job, a cognitive heavy loading job being an agent trying to help people and doing the right thing.

00:12:26: Is there still space for AI here?

00:12:28: do you think from what you've been seeing in your experience in the contact center especially recently?

00:12:34: Yeah I think this is where AI really coming into its own to be honest with reduce that cognitive load, that cognitive burden.

00:12:44: So the knowledge areas they can get served through AI supporting them like a sort of friend there with them on the interaction so that they have the breathing space and the capacity to manage the emotion because all the things that create the cognitive load are around.

00:13:05: I don't know.

00:13:06: is this Do I know what's happening in terms of this individual context?

00:13:14: And it is those things that AI is able to support the advisors with.

00:13:18: So there are loads of studies being done on cognitive load and impact on the advisers, listening to a podcast the other day actually basically one of these advisers had said Oh, you know that is... That really hurts because like you say it Is a really hard job and by-and large they are on minimum wage And You want to make kits so that they are motivated To help the customers.

00:13:53: And that now looks Like supporting them through This emotional roller coaster.

00:13:59: The customer's generally going On Because their aren't ringing for the Highly transactional things anymore.

00:14:06: What price emotional intelligence and if that's what it is leading to?

00:14:11: That's a good thing surely.

00:14:14: It's not a minimum wage thing, it's an EQ thing I know.

00:14:18: right interesting might

00:14:20: Such again so many studies have been done about the top brass within organisations and the fact that their EQ is generally a lot higher than they're IQ.

00:14:30: And that, it's the currency That will get you places.

00:14:33: so really what we should be looking to create Is this foundation of people with really... because You can develop EQ.

00:14:41: Yes!

00:14:41: You naturally have emotional intelligence Within you but It can Be taught and nurtured as well.

00:14:49: So I think there's A real opportunity To create a workforce really highly emotionally intelligent customer service support advisors.

00:15:00: Imagine what that would do for your brand as well, I think it could be incredible because again its a class thing about how you differentiate and people feel.

00:15:08: Yeah, well yeah.

00:15:09: I mean i do a lot of keynotes and never not finish with including Mayor Angelou's because it is always true!

00:15:17: It about how you make people feel... Not what you say or did And those experiences are the ones that resonate Those... Oh thankyou so much James Alright.

00:15:28: thanks for taking time.

00:15:30: That's what customers want to be saying when they speak.

00:15:36: Yeah, that cognitive load getting taken away from them by serving the knowledge assets.

00:15:42: By autosummarizing their interactions and assisting through that horrible admin burden they get in an after-call workpiece.

00:15:52: I'm definitely seeing advisors who are embracing as long it's deployed with clarity into the organisation and with them on board.

00:16:06: So it's interesting here because you can't measure EQ in average... Well, actually there is a connection there but what are you seeing?

00:16:17: how people are measuring that connection between customer an agent?

00:16:23: Is any emergent metrics here?

00:16:24: What were you saying?

00:16:26: Well yeah talk about measuring understanding.

00:16:29: trust as an indicator isn't.

00:16:32: But then, and of course we're now moving into a world of quality monitoring.

00:16:37: And real time sentiment metrics although you'll have to be mindful of the EU AI act coming in to force if your managing interactions within Europe.

00:16:48: but still all that is starting to be considered.

00:16:54: people are sticking twenty-five years in and don't really mean an awful lot anymore.

00:17:05: So I'd love to see an overhaul of metrics, um...and i'd love them reflect that solution being provided within one touch whether it's a bot or human done within a lean time frame.

00:17:23: because, you know average handling time is obviously horrible but... You should have a sense of how long an issue should take to resolve.

00:17:32: so in that lean timeframe quality verified.

00:17:35: Because let's face it we're moving into world where everything should be quality verified In real-time or very soon thereafter and then super easy.

00:17:47: So That's the sort of metric measures that I think businesses should be looking to, to think about more.

00:17:55: That's really insightful because if we fast forward twelve months surely that is a benchmark for healthy AI adoption then with that lens yeah?

00:18:04: The emotional connection and lighter cognitive load...that's good result right!

00:18:09: With business owning this rather than being directed to adopt something.

00:18:14: So agents doing less They're doing a lot more sort of emotional connection and having to rememberness, but think more.

00:18:24: Customers are having to repeat themselves less still To me is a huge metric in twelve months time most customers not having to Repeat themselves And we're serving them within and containing them effectively and connecting well when they're In the channel of their choice.

00:18:42: and then yeah leaders really trusting the data and amalgamating lots of different data sources, because as you know at the moment by enlarge they'll take one source from one area.

00:18:55: One source for another area in other source from another area... You can do see organizations sorry bringing together the crowd be eyes on the tableaus to amalgamat but is it the cleanest picture that they're looking?

00:19:07: Is it really reflective?

00:19:13: Either the bot or The Human.

00:19:16: It's super interesting.

00:19:16: you're saying that because she kind of alluded to last question on this podcast, but what is the thing that you hope leaders stop doing and what do they want them start doing?

00:19:27: You talked about data... Is it really top-of-mind for your as far with this whole Stop Start thing ?

00:19:33: What else have been seen in consulting work that are being done?

00:19:38: Well I think as well that advises being coming on the journey as well, I really think leaders need to think about their AI team and who that cluster involves.

00:19:52: So bring the FDM, bring the CTO in.

00:19:55: they're absolutely vital but them of themselves are not the whole story.

00:20:02: The whole story has to include head of customer, a Head of Operations and the head of people... And or something that looks or feels like those roles.

00:20:12: so you are looking at it in-the-round because what leaders are doing at the moment is they're being focused on the hype ...and they are lending.... They are giving it to the person who's most equipped is the CTO and therefore they're delivering product, not solution.

00:20:36: And I just think that they really need to take a step back and go right.

00:20:40: what are we doing this for?

00:20:43: What is success going to look like?

00:20:45: on what measures Are We Going To Put In Place To Ensure That Success Is Being Achieved ?

00:20:51: And we definitely need to ensure.

00:20:53: I

00:20:59: absolutely love that name.

00:21:00: It's somewhat a lovely full circle note to finish this episode on you and we started about the whole transactional approach too, To delivering service through the contact center And then really be focusing it on what an AI driven version of that looks like.

00:21:14: so once again Thank You so much for joining me here today Absolutely loving your work as ever and Yeah look forward to seeing you at some events this year as well.

00:21:24: So thank you again for taking the time today

00:21:27: Yeah, without a doubt.

00:21:28: See you soon James.

00:21:29: Thank You, James and Narest And for all those CX leaders out there, Narest advice for spot on Stop rushing AI adoption purely for cost reasons.

00:21:38: Start building cross-functional teams Bringing together finance technology and your frontline advisors To define what success really does look like So huge.

00:21:48: thank you to James & Narest For such thoughtful discussion And if this episode resonated with you, make sure to keep connected so that you don't miss what's coming next.

00:21:57: If you're rethinking your own approach to AI and customer experience the team at Zoom would love to hear from you!

00:22:03: So thanks for listening To The Zoom In on CX Podcast Until Next Time.